President Trump’s actions against transgender Americans have been stunningly wide-ranging. They’ve also been popular. Trump has sought new restrictions on trans people in sports, schools, the military, prisons and medical care, and in government documentation. And a recent poll found that a majority of Americans approve of how Mr. Trump is handling trans issues — far above how he is handling his presidency generally. On trans-related issues, Americans’ opinions have moved right since 2022. What led the trans-rights movement to suffer not just a major electoral loss, but also a sweeping loss of public support? Sarah McBride is a freshman congresswoman from Delaware, where she was previously a state senator. And she is the first openly transgender member of Congress. In our conversation, Representative McBride reckons with the trans rights movement’s shortcomings, what liberalism should look like in a profoundly illiberal time and how to win hearts and minds through a politics of “grace.” It’s the most stirring defense of the practice of politics — with all its compromises and disappointments and frustrations — I’ve heard in some time. 0:00 Intro 3:01 Why Americans support Trump's trans policies 17:03 A politics of grace 23:32 Illiberalism on the left 25:43 The aftermath of 2024 election 31:50 Building a broader coalition for trans rights 36:04 How Americans poll on trans issues 48:36 Fights around speech and language 55:54 Health care for minors 1:00:12 How the 'born this way' discourse has shifted 1:03:59 What the right-wing narrative on 'choice' gets wrong 1:09:03 Working with Republicans in Congress as the first trans Congress member 1:16:30 Liberalism (and do good politics require clear enemies?) 1:26:24 Back to grace 1:31:54 Book recommendations Read the full transcript here: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/06/17/opinion/ezra-klein-podcast-sarah-mcbride.html Watch more on @EzraKleinShow Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com. You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.html